The other day I was doing multiple approaches under the hood. I needed
an extra minute or two to setup for the next approach and requested a "5
mile turn." From my understanding, this means that while on downwind to
not turn me until 5 miles from the FAF. The controller didn't
understand. I thought maybe he didn't hear me clearly so I repeated a
"requesting a 5 mile turn." He said, "I don't know what that is." I
then said, "let me try this, how about delay vectors." That did the
trick. I thought a "X mile turn" is standard terminology. Is it not?

Gerald Sylvester

> I thought maybe he didn't hear me clearly so I repeated a "requesting a 5 mile turn." He said, "I don't know what that is."

Why not tell him? "Could you vector me to final five miles out?"

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I don't fly very often, but I remember "five mile turn" being relevant to
holding patterns. Rather than timing the legs of a hold you request the
hold legs be distance-based. I've not heard of the term used as you were
trying to use it, but that's why I read this NG.

--

Scott

"Gerald S." > wrote in message
t...
>
> The other day I was doing multiple approaches under the hood. I needed an
> extra minute or two to setup for the next approach and requested a "5 mile
> turn." From my understanding, this means that while on downwind to not
> turn me until 5 miles from the FAF. The controller didn't understand. I
> thought maybe he didn't hear me clearly so I repeated a "requesting a 5
> mile turn." He said, "I don't know what that is." I then said, "let me
> try this, how about delay vectors." That did the trick. I thought a "X
> mile turn" is standard terminology. Is it not?
>

Not.

"tscottme" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> I don't fly very often, but I remember "five mile turn" being relevant to
> holding patterns. Rather than timing the legs of a hold you request the
> hold legs be distance-based. I've not heard of the term used as you were
> trying to use it, but that's why I read this NG.
>

That would be five mile legs.

Can you find it in the Pilot/Controller Glossary?

Bob Gardner
SAY AGAIN, PLEASE


"Gerald S." > wrote in message
t...
> The other day I was doing multiple approaches under the hood. I needed an
> extra minute or two to setup for the next approach and requested a "5 mile
> turn." From my understanding, this means that while on downwind to not
> turn me until 5 miles from the FAF. The controller didn't understand. I
> thought maybe he didn't hear me clearly so I repeated a "requesting a 5
> mile turn." He said, "I don't know what that is." I then said, "let me
> try this, how about delay vectors." That did the trick. I thought a "X
> mile turn" is standard terminology. Is it not?
>
> Gerald Sylvester
>
>

On 05/12/07 15:38, Bob Gardner wrote:
> Can you find it in the Pilot/Controller Glossary?

Can you find Delay Vectors in there? ;-)

>
> Bob Gardner
> SAY AGAIN, PLEASE


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Good point, and I don't have a pat answer. I do know that controllers react
appropriately to a request for delay vectors, however.

Bob Gardner

"Mark Hansen" > wrote in message
...
> On 05/12/07 15:38, Bob Gardner wrote:
>> Can you find it in the Pilot/Controller Glossary?
>
> Can you find Delay Vectors in there? ;-)
>
>>
>> Bob Gardner
>> SAY AGAIN, PLEASE
>
>
> --
> Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
> Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
> Sacramento, CA

On May 13, 4:16 pm, "Bob Gardner" > wrote:
> Good point, and I don't have a pat answer. I do know that controllers react
> appropriately to a request for delay vectors, however.
>
> Bob Gardner
>
> "Mark Hansen" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > On 05/12/07 15:38, Bob Gardner wrote:
> >> Can you find it in the Pilot/Controller Glossary?
>
> > Can you find Delay Vectors in there? ;-)
>
> >> Bob Gardner
> >> SAY AGAIN, PLEASE
>
> > --
> > Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
> > Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
> > Sacramento, CA- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

And occasionally you'll need to speak plain language when standard
phraseology doesn't work. "Vector" is standard phraseology, but the
words "Request" and "Delay" don't stand on their own in the P/CG. I
agree with Jose, just ask him in English what you want.

On May 12, 5:29 pm, "Gerald S." > wrote:
> The other day I was doing multiple approaches under the hood. I needed
> an extra minute or two to setup for the next approach and requested a "5
> mile turn." From my understanding, this means that while on downwind to
> not turn me until 5 miles from the FAF. The controller didn't
> understand. I thought maybe he didn't hear me clearly so I repeated a
> "requesting a 5 mile turn." He said, "I don't know what that is." I
> then said, "let me try this, how about delay vectors." That did the
> trick. I thought a "X mile turn" is standard terminology. Is it not?
>
> Gerald Sylvester

I'm a CFII, and I've never heard it phrased that way. Could be a
local thing. My request would sound something like: "Blahba Approach,
Skyhawk 123YZ requesting ILS 36 approach Hooterville; requesting
vectors for a 5 mile intercept prior to FAF (the name of the Final
Approach fix)"

"Brad" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> I'm a CFII, and I've never heard it phrased that way. Could be a
> local thing. My request would sound something like: "Blahba Approach,
> Skyhawk 123YZ requesting ILS 36 approach Hooterville; requesting
> vectors for a 5 mile intercept prior to FAF (the name of the Final
> Approach fix)"
>

Too much talking. I'd drop "prior to FAF (the name of the Final Approach
fix)" as the intercept should never be inside the FAF anyway.

"Brad" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On May 12, 5:29 pm, "Gerald S." > wrote:
>> The other day I was doing multiple approaches under the hood. I needed
>> an extra minute or two to setup for the next approach and requested a "5
>> mile turn." From my understanding, this means that while on downwind to
>> not turn me until 5 miles from the FAF. The controller didn't
>> understand. I thought maybe he didn't hear me clearly so I repeated a
>> "requesting a 5 mile turn." He said, "I don't know what that is." I
>> then said, "let me try this, how about delay vectors." That did the
>> trick. I thought a "X mile turn" is standard terminology. Is it not?
>>
>> Gerald Sylvester
>
> I'm a CFII, and I've never heard it phrased that way. Could be a
> local thing. My request would sound something like: "Blahba Approach,
> Skyhawk 123YZ requesting ILS 36 approach Hooterville; requesting
> vectors for a 5 mile intercept prior to FAF (the name of the Final
> Approach fix)"

When there's nothing in the Glossary stick actuators should stop trying to
sound "kewl" and just say what they want :-/

If you want a 10 mile final ask for a 10 mile final. It might end up being
a 15 or 20 mile final due to traffic but that's life.

If you want an extended downwind to do set-up ask for an extended downwind
to do set-up. You might get a "Let me know when you're ready" instead.

If you want an intercept right at the FAF to practice an emergency approach
ask for an intercept at the FAF for a practice emergency approach. You'll
probably get a "Maintain VFR" but you were going to do that anyway.

If you can't articulate what you want in brief standard English you probably
shouldn't be flying it in the first place :-/

On May 12, 2:29 pm, "Gerald S." > wrote:
> The other day I was doing multiple approaches under the hood. I needed
> an extra minute or two to setup for the next approach and requested a "5
> mile turn." From my understanding, this means that while on downwind to
> not turn me until 5 miles from the FAF. The controller didn't
> understand. I thought maybe he didn't hear me clearly so I repeated a
> "requesting a 5 mile turn." He said, "I don't know what that is." I
> then said, "let me try this, how about delay vectors." That did the
> trick. I thought a "X mile turn" is standard terminology. Is it not?
>
> Gerald Sylvester

I would focus less on trying to figure out the terminology and more on
just asking for what you want. Tell him you need a few minutes.

-Robert, CFII